Auxane Boch Podcast Poster V3

Auxane Boch | Ep 21

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Video Games, Social Robotics and the Ethics of AI.

In this episode we talk about how video games foster social integration and education. We discover the difference between ‘Interactional Systems’ and interactive tech, and the integration of AI-powered social robots in healthcare.

We also talk about the ethical concerns surrounding AI, its productivity potential, sentience, and media misrepresentation of academic findings. 

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Auxane Boch

Auxane Boch is:

  • A Doctoral candidate in Interactional Technology Ethics at the Technical University of Munich (TUM). 
  • She is a Researcher in Video Games, Immersive Realities, Social Robotics and AI Ethics from a psychology perspective
  • She is also a Friedrich Schiedel Fellow at the TUM Think Tank where she also co-leads the Immersive Realities Working Group
  • And she is the Women in AI Germany Research Officer.

Auxane’s multidisciplinary expertise spans video games, immersive realities, social robotics, and AI ethics.

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Check out her website & Research Gate profile:

🎙️ In this episode, we explore how technology shapes our minds and society. Here’s what we covered:

  • Gaming for Good: The potential of video games as tools for social education and integration—proving it’s not the tech, but how we use it that matters.
  • Late-Night Gaming: Is it a growing concern for adults, or just another misunderstood habit?
  • Interactional Systems vs Interactive Tech: AI, online games, and robots—how these systems redefine human interaction.
  • Immersive Realities Lab at TUM: Cutting-edge solutions in virtual environments and beyond.
  • AI in Healthcare: Social robots transforming daily care for those in need and shaping the future of healthcare.
  • Ethical Design: How psychological insights guide the creation of responsible social robots and tackle key ethical AI concerns.
  • AI and Society: Can AI boost productivity and bridge skill gaps, or will its growing intelligence pose risks to humanity?
  • Regulating AI Ethics: Will these guidelines curb illicit activities or only control mainstream use?

Recommended Reads and Games

  • Books: The New Breed by Kate Darling and Reality is Broken by Jane McGonigal.
  • Games: What Remains of Edith Finch and Detroit: Become Human for emotionally rich, thought-provoking experiences.

🎧 This episode is a must-listen if you’re curious about social robots, immersive realities, AI ethics, or online gaming.

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Supremacy Book Review

Supremacy – Parmy Olson

AI seems to be everywhere at the moment. The media machine and the echo chamber of social media algorithms have bathed my feeds in news, white papers, and academic articles about the latest digital revolution. I have to admit here that before reading Supremacy, my knowledge of AI and the large language models that drove the algorithms and machine learning behind them was a bit of a foreign concept.

Although Supremacy sets out a history of just two AI companies (ChatGPT and DeepMind) and the personalities that shaped and invested in them and subsequently bought them, Parmy Olson does a great job of explaining throughout what drives AI tools—at least the ones that are competing head-on with search engines.

If you want a history of AI and a glance at the potential future, this is a great book to start with. It is surprisingly entertaining and deeply fascinating while still being very ‘quaffable’. Having recently finished the book, I am about to flip back to Page 1 and start again – as I am sure I will get a few more golden nuggets of insights I didn’t pick up the first time.

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Rachel Wood Poster

Rachel Wood | Ep 15

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AI and the Future of Work and Society.

In this episode, I chat with Rachel Wood, a speaker, researcher, writer, educator, and therapist.

We talk about Generative AI and Mental Wellbeing in the future workplace.

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Rachel Wood

Rachel is a speaker, researcher, writer, educator, therapist, and PhD candidate, researching the intersection of psychology, AI and the future of work, education and relationships.

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In this episode we explore the fascinating intersection of psychology, AI, and the future of work and relationships.

Rachel shares her unique journey from music education to counselling and finally to her current research in cyberpsychology. She discusses her PhD studies, which focus on the psychological impact of artificial intelligence on professionals, the workplace, and educational systems. Her insights on the rapid evolution of AI and its implications offer a fresh perspective on how we can adapt to the challenges and opportunities of emerging technologies.

Key Takeaways:

Psychological Skills for Navigating AI in the Workplace
Rachel introduces the concept of “psychosocial and vocational plasticity,” emphasising skills like cognitive flexibility, curiosity, and grit to help us adapt to rapid AI advancements. She provides practical exercises, such as arguing the opposite side of a disagreement, to enhance these skills.

Addressing AI Ambivalence
Mixed feelings towards AI—both excitement and hesitation—are natural, but they can be barriers to adoption. Rachel highlights the importance of open dialogue in workplaces to address these emotions and facilitate smoother integration of AI tools.

Generative AI and Human Relationships
The conversation delves into the potential of generative AI as artificial companions and its impact on relational dynamics. While AI can help isolated individuals, Rachel warns of the risks of unidirectional relationships eroding essential interpersonal skills like compromise and empathy.

Therapeutic Applications of AI
Rachel explores groundbreaking therapeutic applications, such as AI-generated future selves to reduce anxiety and AI tools for “self-parenting” younger selves. These tools could help individuals process trauma, find hope, and gain agency in healing.

The Future of Work and Vocational Identity
AI will likely redefine vocational identities, providing opportunities to focus on meaningful work and explore purpose beyond repetitive tasks. Rachel sees this as a chance to redesign work-life balance and foster creativity.

Thought-Provoking Moments:

  • AI in Debating and Cognitive Flexibility: Could algorithms that expose us to opposing viewpoints reshape how we engage with diverse ideas?
  • Bidirectional Relationships vs AI Companions: Are we at risk of losing critical relational skills in the age of always-agreeable artificial companions?
  • AI and Future Self Therapy: Can visualising a hopeful future self help us overcome current anxieties and break negative habits?

Rachel’s insights underscore the importance of intentionality in embracing AI. By equipping ourselves with adaptive skills and fostering meaningful human connections, we can shape a future where technology enriches rather than diminishes our lives. 🌐

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Dr Paul Marsden poster

Dr Paul Marsden | Ep 10

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The Human-AI Interaction

In this episode, we explore AI, Positive Psychology, Digital Wellbeing and technology.

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Dr Paul Marsden

Paul is a Chartered psychologist specialising in consumer behaviour, wellbeing and technology. He is a university lecturer at UAL and a consultant consumer psychologist with Brand Genetics.

Paul believes that the biggest digital disruption is the one happening in our heads, as technology transforms our identity, experiences and relationships. He helps businesses understand how this digital disruption influences consumer needs, motivations and behaviour.

He lectures on consumer trends and consumer psychology at the business school of the London College of Fashion, where he also researches the phenomenon of “enclothed cognition” – the psychological impact of our clothes on how we think.

He co-founded Brainjuicer PLC (now System1 Group), a research company that uses online psychological techniques to understand consumers.

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In today’s episode of Confessions of a CyberPsychologist, YouTube Link, I chat with Dr Paul Marsden about the intersection of technology, well-being, and AI-driven futures. From his early fascination with Blade Runner to developing AI “co-workers” for businesses, Paul offers an inspiring take on how technology can be harnessed for positive change.

Growing up with Cyberpunk Influences

Paul’s childhood fascination with Blade Runner ignited his interest in synthetic humans and the blurred boundaries between human and artificial intelligence. This early inspiration spurred him on to do a PhD and eventually co-found Brain Juicer (now System1), a research agency based on word-association techniques.

Positive Psychology and the ARC of Happiness

He underlines the importance of positive psychology, highlighting self-determination theory—specifically the ARC model (Autonomy, Relatedness, and Competence)—as a guiding principle:

  • Autonomy: We thrive when we feel in control of our choices, whether online or offline.
  • Relatedness: Connection to others—be it through social media, communities, or shared experiences—bolsters our well-being.
  • Competence: Feeling capable and “savvy” boosts happiness and encourages repeat engagement in both digital and consumer spaces.

He points out how brands and technology platforms that support these three needs often inspire loyalty, promote well-being, and turn user satisfaction into sustainable profitability.

AI for Well-Being and Business

We talk about the potential of AI assistants—like “Mia” or “Lexi”—that can be given specialised skills and even distinct personalities. In business contexts, these AI “co-workers” not only handle routine tasks (filling forms, summarising documents, analysing data) but also provide empathetic support to employees. By tailoring AI with human-like qualities and memory, users build genuine rapport with their digital counterparts.

He also discusses AI’s capacity to democratise therapy by offering empathetic conversations and personalised mental health support, particularly in a world where counselling resources are stretched. AI’s potential to reduce barriers—such as cost, stigma, and lack of local services—could open mental health support to a far wider population.

Debunking the Doom and Gloom

From I am Gen Z (a documentary highlighting the digital anxieties of Gen Z) to the ongoing debate between Elon Musk’s AI pessimism and Mark Zuckerberg’s optimism, Paul emphasises a balanced view. He sees technology not as inherently harmful but as a tool whose impact depends on how it is used—and crucially, whether it displaces activities that meet our innate ARC needs. He also stresses that regulatory or institutional fears shouldn’t block everyday people from accessing the transformative possibilities of AI.

Looking Ahead

Cyberpsychology is evolving beyond its traditional focus on social media, cyberbullying, and online risks. The rise of AI offers a reset moment: a chance to embrace an applied, more positive strand of cyberpsychology that explores how humans and machines can co-create value, enhance well-being, and tackle real-world challenges.

Key Takeaways:

  1. ARC Model – A simple but powerful framework for designing technology and consumer experiences that promote happiness and loyalty.
  2. Empathy in AI – Human-like AI can boost productivity and provide meaningful emotional support, reshaping how we work and care for each other.
  3. Digital Literacy – Embracing AI across education and business is crucial; we risk falling behind if we ban or overly restrict these tools.
  4. Positive Outlook – Technology reflects our choices and motivations; focusing on the good it can do encourages innovation and shared prosperity.

Recommended Reading

  • Anything by William Gibson (who coined “cyberspace”)
  • Without Miracles by Gary Cziko
  • Darwin’s Dangerous Idea by Daniel Dennett

By shifting our lens towards the potential for well-being, AI, and positive psychology, we can steer cyberpsychology from a “doom and gloom” narrative to one centred on thriving, innovation, and meaningful human connections.

Acronyms:

AI: Artificial Intelligence

LLM: Large Language Model

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Reigning in artificial intelligence

The global attempt to reign in Artificial Intelligence

What was originally considered Artificial Intelligence Science Fiction only a decade or so ago has become a reality or at least a potential certainty. It has been suggested that designers in Silicon Valley use SciFi as an inspiration for the creation of new technology.

Although there is a practical perspective to AI, there are also psychological consequences to this growing part of our digital technology. Some of these consequences are already self-evident, others are still to emerge. 

Psychological Aspects of AI 

  • AI has the potential to reduce the value of human-based work including, but not limited to: journalism, administration and creative design. But, it also has the ability to enhance or increase productivity in various fields
  • A lot of ink has been spilt over how AI will steal so many jobs. But, history is littered with both job losses and new job creation that come from technological inventions e.g. the tractor, the printing press, and online banking – this doesn’t seem exponentially different
  • Scare-mongering by the media (and also by high-profile tech giants) can cause unnecessary moral panic that can result in fear-based passivity, rather than a proactive focus on how to train for future employment 
  • But, humans are extraordinarily adaptive and have the ability to learn new skill sets and find new career paths through these innovations
  • Maybe it is time to change the narrative around AI to be more about mitigating the harms and building future-focused AI skillset resilience

November 2023 AI Safety Summit

The psychological implications aside, there is still enough of a concern about the practical elements of AI that an AI Safety Summit took place at UK’s Bletchley Park on 1-2 November 2023 in London to talk through how to potentially manage and regulate AI going forward. 

Elon Musk has often warned about the dangers of AI. He to British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak at the Safety Summit about the dangers, positives and potential restrictions that needed to be placed on those who build AI. 

The summit is a great start in this process of better understanding the human impact of AI. A few highlights gleaned from The Evening Standard articles reporting on Elon Musk’s comments both before and during the Summit held are: 

More intelligent than humans

  • AI and machine learning have the ability to be more intelligent than the smartest humans
  • It is not clear if AI can be controlled, so there needs to be an over-riding ‘off switch’

AI will operate according to its programming

  • AI is biased in that its foundational programming will be in line with the belief systems, biases and worldviews of those who write the programs. If these are implicitly in contrast with the greater good of humanity, the outcomes could become counter-productive.

Existential risk

  • The greatest risk lies in AI becoming accidentally ‘anti-human’ – which is what we should be most concerned about
  • While Elon Musk regularly mention the threat of extinction from AI, others suggest the threat to be more akin to a pandemic or nuclear war, others suggest that the threat is minimal – although it is impossible to predict
  • He also mentioned risks such as deep fake videos, disinformation from fake bot social media accounts and humanoid robots
  • The greatest risks come from ‘frontier AI’, which will probably exceed today’s AI models, or from losing control of these systems – especially around potential misuse 
  • Although Elon Musk does think that AI will mostly be a force for good (such as personalised tuition for children), he also suggests that AI will result in a time when there are no jobs

International regulator body

  • Rishi Sunak wants to make the UK a ‘Global Hub’ for AI safety
  • A neutral 3rd party regulator body should be set up  to ‘observe what leading AI companies are doing and at least sound the alarm if they have concerns’
  • All 28 countries will recommend an expert to join the UN-backed global panel on AI safety

The Bletchley Declaration

  • All 28 countries that attended the summit have signed the ‘Bletchley Declaration which sets out a shared understanding of the risks of AI and pledges to develop AI models that are safe and responsible
  • These governments and major AI companies (Open AI and Google DeepMind) will work together to research and manage AI risks and include external safety testing on new AI models that may hold some risk to society and national security
  • It resolves to ‘work together in an inclusive manner to ensure human-centri, trustworthy and responsible AI that is safe’
  • The document is not legally binding, but rather a voluntary, agreement

Read more: 

You can read more about the reporting from the global summit, written by Martyn Landi, Gwyn Wright and Mary-Ann Russon of The Evening Standard, from the below links.

Elon Musk says AI one of the ‘biggest threats’ to humanity.

AI Safety: What have we learned?

Elon Musk: AI could pose existential risk if it becomes ‘anti-human’.

Elon Musk tells Rishi Sunak: AI ‘the most destructive force in history’

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Metaverse

Can Meta Save Itself?

Opinion Piece (Updated 8 Nov 22)

Meta (principally led by MZ) has been making a lot of noise this past year around what they are planning for their Metaverse creation. We touched on a recent interview with Joe Rogan and summarised a few of their plans early in September. However, the question that is currently being bandied about is whether or not MZ has been spending too much time with his tech contemporaries and potentially losing touch with the general public? 

The BBC published an article highlighting the downward spiral of Meta’s shares since February, and its first quarterly revenue decline in July – with no new users being added in the US and Europe. Similarly, The Spectator showcased how failings in both tactical and strategic moves have chipped away at users and investors confidence in the company and their ability to innovate. MZ has shifted his focus away from the daily running of the company and seemingly putting all his energy into building the Meta version of the Metaverse. All this shifting is potentially resulting in a loss of core business focus and ultimately leading to a downsizing of business costs through large-scale staff layoffs, as reported in the Wall Street Journal on 6th Nov 22. The WSJ interviews (see the top of the WSJ article) with a few tech founders seems to indicate that they view the metaverse as a gaming platform that is unlikely to enter into the realm of the general public or business world. They believe the money MZ is investing in his version of the metaverse build is akin to the expenses one would pour into a ‘pet project’ and not a great business decision.

Every company has a lifecycle, and unless they are able to innovate regularly, and in the right areas, a company will either gradually (or very swiftly) find themselves on a rather sticky wicket. Although there are many potential benefits to the metaverse for businesses – it often takes a more ubiquitous use of new technology on a personal level, before it starts to infiltrate the professional realm. 

Is Meta investing too much focus and resources in metaverse technology? There is always risk in developing new technology, and much hype has already been generated by this new potential as having a high future return on investments. Is the metaverse something that will enhance consumers lives to the degree that they will buy into it? Or, are consumers starting to see some of the negative mental health consequences of too little time spent face-to-face with others and too much time with virtual others – and potentially, therefore pulling back on past and current levels of tech use? 

You can read a PDF of the articles by clicking on these links to the BBC article PDF or Spectator article PDF.

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JR & MZ

MZ and Meta’s vision for their Metaverse creation

There is a lot of speculation about what ‘the Metaverse’ will be. Although we have some idea of what it may look like, there are some variations on the theme based on the vision of the developing tech giant. 

For Meta, this metaverse future ideal is controlled via MZ, who recently revealed his vision for the future of the human-digital-connection. 

Joe Rogan recently interviewed Mark Zuckerberg on his vision for the Metaverse. You can watch this interview at the Daily Motion here

The Times ran a great summary of this interview of MZ’s vision in a recent write-up of the interview*. This includes: 

  • launching a new VR headset – increasing non-verbal avatar expressions and feelings of ‘presence’ with others in VR
  • a future that includes AR glasses where people interact with the physical world via digital overlays
  • normalising holograms that can be beamed into a geographically distant office 
  • more realistic avatars
  • directly competing with passive TV ‘screen time’ allowing people to actively virtually socialise with others

Although there are a lot of upsides to hologram (Star Wars-like) usage. There are some potential downsides that need to be considered. These could be (but are not limited to):

  • personal and company security
  • potential issues around hologram based cyberbullying or cyberstalking
  • the ability to harvest real-life data

The potential of the metaverse is both interesting and intimidating. The race is on for big tech companies to be the first to develop this future. 

* if you can’t access the original interview, you can read a PDF of the article here

You can also view an explanation of MZ’s view of the Metaverse as well as an interview with him and Tim Ferriss.

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Future Worker Psychology

Current and future worker psychology is affected by how we use technology to do our work

Anecdotally, it would seem that we have all, in one way or another, been impacted by the Lockdowns over the 2020/21 period. Professionally our psychology has shifted in how we are able to fulfil our work role. 

Computer Self-Efficacy

One of the many positive unintended consequences of Lockdowns, and remote work, is that we’ve become a lot more confident in our ability to use the available technology to get our work done (known as computer-self efficacy).

Not having IT or work colleagues nearby to ‘quickly help us’ with things we’re not sure of, helped us to figure out the tech for ourselves. Doing so empowered us with greater confidence to use the apps and tech we need to get our work done. As a result, we have become more productive in what we do and how we do it.  

Flexible Working

Although the technology was already available for much of the team to effectively and efficiently work in a remote/hybrid or flexible way, this way of working was often posited as ‘impossible’.

In 2014 the UK issued the Flexible Work Regulations, which allowed any worker (not just those with caring responsibilities) to apply for flexible working arrangements. This change in regulations garnered limited press coverage and, therefore, little awareness among workers. Even then, employers often based objections to flexible work on the overriding narrative that ‘working from home was impossible’, ‘it would lower productivity levels’ and ‘it wouldn’t be good for team cohesion, company culture and overall productivity delivery’ (etc).

Then the impossible became possible, and entire workforces were shifted to a remote working environment, within a short space of time. 

If workers had all gone back to the office after those first 3 weeks to ‘flatten the curve’, very little would have psychologically changed in how work got done. The ‘old normal’ would have remained.

What has changed

Extended lockdowns meant we had to:

  • Spend time and mental energy finding better ways to work from home
  • Turn part of our home into a better working solution
  • Develop physical and psychological strategies to juggle different work and home realms, personas and commitments

Effectively more hybrid

So, we’ve inadvertently done a self-taught crash course in how to work remotely. This means we have more choice in how we now ‘do hybrid’ more effectively. We’ve tasted the flexibility that working from home/anywhere gives us, but relish the community that in-office work gives us. Research by Stanford University showcases that 50% of workers want to keep it that way and see hybrid working as a big part of managing their work-life balance more effectively. 

The downside of technology in remote work

Because a number of workers have set up a home-based work environment, there is more opportunity for workers to start their workday earlier and end their workday later. Although this may seem to increase overall productivity, it has limited benefits. Working longer hours increases energy output and reduces personal time and the time needed to psychologically transition between two life realms. 

Workers have become more used to the concept of working while at home. The habit of ‘quickly checking’ emails/messages is a lot easier to indulge as we’ve become mentally more familiarly with working away from the office. The more we check and reply to work emails the more we set expectations of others that we are available after working hours. We reduce the ability to cognitively and emotionally recover from the energy required to perform our work role. We reduce the available time to spend on our own pursuits and time with our friends and family. 

If a dedicated workspace isn’t available to visually separate working space from private-time space, workers are more likely to be constantly reminded of work after working hours. This can be especially true if a laptop or work mobile is left on and notifications can be seen/heard outside of office hours. 

Going forward – technology for work

As technology continues to shift how we use and engage in our workplace, we need to become more mindful of how our use of technology is shifting our psychology about work. If we are more mindful of the impact of work-based technology in our everyday lives, we can take more proactive steps in either enhancing the benefits or curbing the negative personal and professional impact on our psychology, productivity and mental wellbeing. 

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2040 Work

How will technology change the jobs of the future?

A recent Telegraph article on a book written by Nikolas Badminton called ‘Facing our Futures’ due to be published later in 2022 by Bloomberg, has highlighted a number of potential jobs that may be key for children to consider over the next few decades.

I admire anyone who takes a punt at predicting the future. We are individually racked by biases, worldviews and limited insights of world dynamics. But, I also wonder if we, as humans, are so enamoured by progress and technology that we place all our bets on universal acceptance of all upcoming technology and the complete integration of it into our daily lives. Although the use of new technology changes us as individuals and as a society, there are some fundamental elements of who we are, as humans, that will not change.

We need community. We need physical engagement with others. Some need more than others, but we need physical presence, we need physical touch, we need physical support. Machines can be a substitute, but they are just that, a temporary substitute.

We solve complex, nuanced, problems every day. Knowing how to reach and teach each individual child in a classroom is something AI cannot do. Fixing a burst water pipe behind the toilet under the stairs isn’t something a machine can easily sort. Emotionally supporting and counselling a returning veteran is not the realm of a therapy bot. There may be some very well-paid technology-based roles in the future, but that isn’t much different from similar well-paid technology-based roles now. There will be very few who either have the aptitude, desire or ability to fill those roles.

As for the metaverse and mixed reality. Facebook (or Meta, as MZ prefers to call it), Microsoft and Google are investing epic amounts of cash into this mixed reality environment. Their investment doesn’t mean that the majority of the population will actually engage with it to become ‘the way we do life’. It just means they currently speculate that it will make them a lot of money in the future. There are plenty of very clever people betting on this future semi-reality. But I suspect that there is a general growing undercurrent of dissatisfaction with the emptiness of technology. There seem to be more and more people who are stepping back from their constant interactions with tech and stepping into better connections with physical others. I suspect that the vast majority will use the metaverse for what they can personally get from it – for work and home – and then switch themselves off from it, go outside and meet with real people.

I think that, in general, we need to take a little bit more of a human-centred approach to how we view the workplace of 18 years hence. Will it change very much from the workplace of now for the general population? I would suggest not. We may be using different tools and apps to achieve the same or better levels of productivity, but the majority of our roles will just evolve to accommodate these better apps and these other ways of doing things, rather than us radically shifting to a whole new dimension of job availability and skillsets. As a case in point: when the motor vehicle became popular and the carriage less so, we may have ‘lost’ some key jobs and companies within the carriage-related industries, but the general gamut of jobs remained the same. We still had butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers; the mechanisation of transport just changed what those roles looked like. There is unlikely to be any greater revolution in the general workforce even with new technology being invented and engaged with.

I guess we can only wait and see what happens. However, I have a much more optimistic view of our place in the future world with technology. I cannot buy into the more pessimistic view of technology taking over all our jobs. But, we will have to just wait and see.

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AI Recruitment

Is the Future of Recruitment in AI and Algorithms?

On the 23rd March it will have been 2 years since Boris Johnson ushered UK knowledge workers into a new era of doing businesses when he asked the UK public to stay home to ‘flatten the curve’. Much has changed since then, including how we recruit and onboard new staff. In July 2020 Dr Linda Kaye (a senior lecturer in CyberPsychology) wrote an interesting article about how future AI may help HR with new staff recruitment, using psychometric competency profiling, based on our online activities and purchasing behaviour.

This is a futuristic piece, with a focus on the recruitment process. Dr Kaye makes some really good points around the direction and potential positives of future recruitment using online behaviour as a psychometric tool to evaluate a candidate’s potential for the role. However, there are a number of concerns I have around using AI & Algorithms to select potential candidates:

* AI doesn’t pick up the subtle nuances that make us human.

* Big Tech have agendas and profit models that go outside of our individual and business interests

* A number of people either don’t have social media accounts or choose to not engage on social media and tend to do all their shopping locally

* Those pulling together job profiles competencies have their own set of biases around what type of person they would like in the role – and potentially reducing diversity and ability

Personally, I’m not sure I want an AI bot or the algorithms of Big Tech to skew my chances of landing my dream job. But, saying that, we do need to consider how dramatically work has shifted over the past 24 months, and how we are going to need to continually (physically and psychologically) adapt to a more tech-driven workplace and recruitment process.

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